Interface: Charlie Trotter, Paul Kahan & Donnie Madia

The culinary and business minds behind two of the country’s elite restaurants reflect on the importance of milestones and why success means working even harder.

By Allison Perlik, Senior Editor -- Restaurants & Institutions, 1/1/2008

On the surface, the two Chicago restaurants seem polar opposites: Charlie Trotter’s classically elegant restaurant that bears his name versus Co-owners Paul Kahan and Donnie Madia’s approachably modern, more-boisterous Blackbird. Dig deeper and it’s evident that each owes its remarkable run of success—20 years so far for Trotter’s, 10 for Blackbird—to two core tenets as simple as they are essential: dedication to using the highest-quality ingredients, and an equal reverence for guests and the dining experience.

AUDIO: Listen to or download a Podcast of this interview.

Q. What does it say about the restaurant industry that 10 years in business is an especially impressive milestone, and 20 years is an even more-rare achievement?

A. TROTTER: We all got into this glorious world we’re in for the same reason: We love to prepare food; we love to deliver service; we love to take care of people. I don’t think any of us ever thought, "Is it going to be five or 10 or 20 years?" It’s more like, "This is so amazing; I can’t believe I can even make a living doing what I’m doing, and it gets more interesting all the time."

KAHAN: I agree. I’m a little simple-minded; I don’t think about the next day until today. When we started, I just dove in. Like Chef said, it’s focusing on something that you’re very passionate about, trying to do it well, trying to grow every day, trying to move forward. It’s about passion and dedication, and I don’t think they’d be at 20 years and we’d be at 10 if it were about milestones, or if it were about anything other than foodservice and what we try to do.

TROTTER: Paul, I don’t know if you guys feel the same, but I remember our first anniversary—I just thought, I can’t believe we’ve even made it one year. I was shocked that we went that far. Did you feel that nervous after year one? Not nervous, but ...

KAHAN: I feel that nervous today.

TROTTER: I do, too.

KAHAN: Something’s going on in the world with the economy, and I just worry about everything. I worry about, "Is our menu great; is our food great; is business in January going to fall through the floor?" I have the same worries every year.

TROTTER: What are you talking about? You guys are busy every single day of the year! You have no worries.

KAHAN: That busyness can be really busy or not really busy; it can be moderately busy. I just worry about it. Maybe that insecurity is what drives us.

Q. Does one measure success differently as a restaurateur than as a chef?

A. MADIA: I don’t think so. This HVAC (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) story [is an example]: Last week, we had a problem with our heating.

KAHAN: It was hanging on by a thread.

MADIA: Earlier that day over a business decision, we weren’t talking to one another.

KAHAN: We were talking, but it was heated ...

MADIA: So I came back for the rest of service that evening, and ... we go in the office and sit down and he tells me we have no heat, we’ve got to do this, we’ve got to do that. So I take a breath and we put our egos aside and ...

KAHAN: They’re huge egos ...

MADIA: And we came up with a plan. We made a phone call and that phone call saved us—how much?

KAHAN: $13,000.

MADIA: $13,000. So that’s what keeps us in business, mano a mano, working things out, putting our egos aside and letting him run the kitchen, letting me run the front of the house. At the end of the day, if there’s a problem, let’s get together and talk about it and move forward. That’s how the progression goes on and on to get things done and to stay in business for 10 years, 20 years.

TROTTER: You talk about success and how you mark success. I think success is about, "Are we finding ways to make it a little better every day?" I don’t think any of us would dream of continuing doing what we’re doing if we didn’t feel we were getting better every day. Because if you don’t see improvement or growth, then you say, well, all right, enough’s enough. That’s the beauty of it, and the challenge.

Q. None of this success would be possible without customers. How have diners changed since your restaurants opened?

A. MADIA: Awareness. Knowing more about wine, knowing more about food. The Internet gets people on top of things in a second, so they hear about a wine, they hear about an opening of a restaurant. They get involved; they seek out information.

TROTTER: We’ve seen a so-much-more-knowledgeable guest walking though that door, and also guests that don’t just go to a Blackbird or a Charlie Trotter’s once or twice a year. They’re coming much more often, and by the way, they’re also eating out at other places much more often. You used to have to explain so many things. What is galangal, or what is cardamom, or what are sweetbreads, or what is this, and now you get people who have a knowledge base that’s already up to here.

Folks are dining out more and more. It’s to the point now where you could be driving cross-country and stop at a P.F. Chang’s China Bistro in Des Moines, Iowa, and they have seared raw tuna over some stir-fry, and it’s actually not bad. That used to be considered sort of an avant-garde dish 18 years ago, and now it’s de rigueur; you find that sort of thing everywhere. So it is exciting, and it’s great for us, because the consumer, the client, definitely pushes us to continue to refine things.

Q. How does that affect you as a chef? Does it challenge you more, make you want to do better, make it more fun?

A. KAHAN: Absolutely. We’ve always offered really simple, product-driven food, and we’re moving into a new era where we’re trying to do things people haven’t done before, develop new and interesting approaches. Taking an ingredient that you wouldn’t necessarily use for soup and making soup out of it, for example. We’re all trying to be very individual and make a statement about our food and have it taste great. Our approach has always been that we can do whatever we want and if it tastes good, people are going to order it. So we’ve never been afraid to serve tongue or sweetbreads or any of the things that Chef Trotter has been doing here forever.

TROTTER: It used to be once a year someone would go to [an ultra-fine-dining operation such as now-closed] Le Perroquet or Le Francais. Now speed up the clock 25 years, and we all have the same clients. It’s not just people who only go to Charlie Trotter’s or to Blackbird or to Le Colonial or whatever type of food they prefer. These are folks that go to all these places. There are enough people that dine out three, four nights a week and more, and one night they want this style and the next night they want that style. And we’re all beneficiaries of this.

KAHAN: Style of service is a big reflection on that as well. It’s not this arrogance anymore where [chefs or servers say], "You mean, you don’t know what sweetbreads are?" We want to make people comfortable; we want people to have a good time. It’s about hospitality [now], and I don’t think it always was. There was a lot more ego involved, a lot more pretense, and across the board that’s changed. That’s important.

Q. You have two of the best-known restaurants in Chicago, yet neither is linked strongly with what some observers now associate most with the city: molecular gastronomy or avant-garde cuisine. Can a restaurant built around that sort of food last for 10 or 20 years?

A. TROTTER: Absolutely it can, but it’s like any restaurant or any business. If your service is great, if the food tastes great and you continue to refine things and evolve things, you can last as long as you’re able to keep on pushing it. It’s another great aspect of what’s available not just in this city but nationwide or worldwide. But yes, in the wrong hands, the quote-unquote "molecular gastronomy" can be a little muddled. But in the right hands it can be very provocative.

KAHAN: I thought molecular gastronomy was dead.

TROTTER: It’s a term, and it doesn’t mean anything. It’s all about if you go to a place and if the food’s great and the service is great. That’s what it’s all about.

KAHAN: Somebody had to make crème brûlée the first time, and they were probably [written off as] a big idiot, [with people saying] this is a trend, this is garbage. We’re both very technique-driven restaurants, and I don’t think Chef Trotter has ever called what they do here molecular gastronomy, but I’d venture to say you could come here any night and see very forward, modern techniques. They just don’t brag about it. At Blackbird, we look for new ways to do things, we look for very forward cooking techniques, and if they’re successful, if the food tastes great, we employ them and we love them.

TROTTER: We live in an environment where the consumer will determine what will be around. As we always say here, if you’ve got an interesting design and you’ve got some provocative food, you’ll certainly get noticed for the first year or two, but it’s not just a quick race. If you really want to do it, you’ve got to be prepared for a really long haul and you’ve got to keep the excitement up, and that has to be genuine. And people have to feel that not just from the leaders. It’s got to exude everywhere. It’s got to ooze from the pores.

AUDIO: Listen to or download a Podcast of this interview.